Those who believe they believe in God, but without passion in the heart, without anguish of mind, without uncertainty, without doubt, and even at times without despair, believe only in the idea of God, and not in God himself.
Madeleine L'Engle
My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal: a fish would not feel wet. Of course, I could have given up my idea of justice by saying that it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my private fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist--in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless--I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality--namely my idea of justice--was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.
C.S. Lewis (Chapter 1 of The Problem of Pain)
We think having faith means being convinced God exists in the same way we are convinced a chair exists. People who cannot be completely convinced of God’s existence think faith is impossible for them. Not so. People who doubt can have great faith because faith is something you do, not something you think. In fact, the greater your doubt the more heroic your faith.
Real Live Preacher
Chair! EICTE:D
More atheism quotes here.
Deadline time^_^
Real Live Preacher
Chair! EICTE:D
More atheism quotes here.
Deadline time^_^
9 comments:
omg, where do i start?! it's one weak argument after the other!
cloud shapes are random, but i see one that looks like a fish, and fish exists and it's not random, so clouds are not random too?.. BS!
anyway, it's too late and i need to sleep (and finish my book :/) so maybe i'll marvel at the preposterous anti logic of religion advocates some other time :)
maybe it's the late hour or me just being brutal, but i'd say it anyway - faith is just hopes and fears. i saw that recently in a live example.
hopes and fears - nothing more.
the philosophy is just fluff smart people use to make those feelings a bit more comfortable for themselves, so they don't look stupid in their own eyes.
and religion just utlizies faith.
Go fox, go!
Show her of her!
(ако някой се сеща за по-добър превод на "покажи й на нея", мооля)
И изобщо хаз, от къде този прилив на религиозност? :/
Покажи уважнеие към чуждата (моята) религия (респ. липса на такава) и не се опитвай да докажеш, че твоята е най-великата, моля. Поне не толкова често...
@ ffox
hopes and fears are some of the stuff myths are made of, I agree.
But what is the source of hopes and fears, baby? Socio-biological urges and instincts? Thanks, but no thanks.
Forget about Christianity for a while, I talking simple theism here, folks. Deism, if you wish. That clockmaker thingy.
@ ikew: in this post at least, i'm not trying to prove anything. I am *hinting* that faith is not blind, and is not a blissful idiotic relish of random shapes of clouds (yeah, i love watching clouds, sue me).
Dare to read the links to L'Engle interview and the Preacher's story before you say that I say that my religion is superior to your lack of religion. I'm not saying anything of the sort. Read L'Engle's quote again.
@ffox
I cannot agree that "hopes and fears" can be a comprehensive definition of faith. Faith is based on convictions and principles. Some convictions might be a result of fears and hopes among other things, but to limit the explanation of faith - and morality - to purely psychological issues underestimates the social aspect of the human existence.
Additionally, excuse me, but it is too Freudian and as Freud is believed to have said, gentlemen, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
@ikew
Не се съмнявам нито за момент, че съветите и критиките ви са уместни и конструктивни, както и че разбиранията ви за добър текст са далеч по-зрели от моите. Ако твърде много ви дразня, съжалението е изцяло мое.
(много трудно се навивам да пиша на тази тема, защото виждам "грешка в инструментите", но го правя заради Хейзъл)
Ще ми се хората да имаха малко повече вяра.
И blissfullness в сърцата си.
А "благослов" и "благодат" са едни от най-прекрасните думи/идеи/усети..
my heart can't stop wondering at them
my reason cannot understand them
my heart can feel them
Аз не мога да пиша за това.
Дори не съм християнин.. не бих казал, че съм "вярващ".
Но не искам да разсъждавам чрез студена рационалност за това, (неправилно е.. вж. "грешка в нструментите")
Нито да убеждавам.
Това за което пише Хейз - то е за сърцето.
@ffox: като говориш за философия и за това какво правят филосфите говориш само за метафизика. (съгласен съм с теб, но има и друг поглед към метафизиката: хора, които искат да повярват и търсят вяра по някакъв рационален начин..)
Но освен това има и друг вид философия, бих я нарекъл обществена, с която твърде често се занимаваме... Тя е силно необходима.
(btw, while still on the topic, history is not SCIENCE. It's HUMANIY)
@Икю: това е просто пост. Хейзъл не те "обръща" в християнството, а просто изразява нещо на душата й. Не е кръстител. Макар като всеки добър християнин да свидетелства. Не атакува атеизма ти. Просто си пише в блога. Демек ако не ти харесва мръсното ми бельо, защо тогава редовно ровиш в коша в банята, а?:))))
Лалее.
Ех :)
от снощи насам преосмислих отношението си, трябваше да обърна и другаата буза към религиозната пропаганда ;)
Обаче блогът на хазел не е кош за мръсно бельо, ей. шсе караме! :)
По-скоро е изрядна стая за гости със стилно подбрани мебели и приятна музика, където изведнъж виждаш... ъ, непран кръст :)
I suggest we quit the discussion of lingerie here, ok? Go discuss it in Ikew's blog:P
@ laleelay: thx for the advocacy:D
I think I've said more than once that the distinction heart/head is too simplistic for my understanding of human beings.
@ frost: you're formidable:) you've been awarded a medal:
http://www.ipttc.org/medals/full_size/1998_Paris.jpg
right one, fine print:)
@hazel: since I'm quite simplistic at both heart and head, that distinction suits me perfectly. ;))
Lalee'lay
In my world, those who have faith are superior to those who don't.
They are the knowers and can be the leaders.
The rest of us can only follow.
Hazel and fox and ikew, you all have the strength of faith I envy.
Me, I avoid the topic, I look away and pass.
- W.
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